DEC 1984 - #3 ****************************** ARTICLE ********************************* What we know of the Loop Palatine Origins - Victor L. Bennison All of the Loop families appear to have their European origins in the Palatine region of Germany. We seem to have two major groups; one coming in through New York City, the other through Philadelphia. The first record we have found in the United States of the former group is the baptism in New York City of a child born at sea [see Issue #1 and #2 of this newsletter]. Present at the baptism are Loops and Coopers. Loops, Coopers (Kupfers), and Krumms, among others, appear together in many Reformed Church records of the Hudson Valley. They also appear together in the records of Emmerichenhain in the Rheinfalz of Germany. Hank Jones, the author of the book "The Palatine Families of New York" provided George Capes with the following records from that town: Baptisms for the children of Johann Jost Krumm and wife Anna Elisabetha: 1) Anna Maria, bpt. 19 Dec 1723 - sponsors: Anna Maria - wife of Joh. Wilhelm Lupp from Niederrosbach, and Johannes Turck from Humburg. 2) Johann Martin, bpt. 19 May 1728 - sp.: Johan Martin Kupfer from Zehnhausen, and Anna Barbara - daughter of Christoffel Krumm from Stockhausen in Krp. Marienberg. 3) etc. Baptisms for Johann Martin Kopfer [Cooper] and wife Anna Elisabetha: 1) Anna Elisabetha, bpt. 5 Dec 1699 - ... 2) etc. Christoph Lupp from Fiehl (Fehl?) married "the daughter of Johannes Turck from Nister" 11 June 1706. At the following baptism the parents are called "Christoph Lupp, Sergeant" and wife Anna Elisabeth from Niederrosbach". They had: 1) Johannes Christianus, bpt. 5 June 1712 - sp.: Johannes Steupp (?) - schultheiss from Ilfurth, Christian Turck - son of Johan Turck from Nister, Anna Elisab. - wife of Christoffel Jung from Weygandshain, and Anna Maria - wife of Joh. Wilhelm Lupp from Hoff. Now, in the New York records we have, for example, prove that Martin Cooper, married Elizabeth Loop, and that his son Martin Cooper, Jr., married Regina Krumm. There are many other such instances. Together they provide very convincing evidence that the two groups are the same. The group of Loops coming through Philapelphia include Gerloch and family and also Ludwig and family. There are other Philadelphia arrivals about whom we know nothing. Of Gerlach's group we have two hints. First there is the article reprinted in Issue #2 of this newsletter, which states that a descendant of Gerloch went back to Germany and found graves of Lupps that he thought were his ancestors' in the town of Neuwied near Koblenz on the Rhine. And Ross Roby writes, "I put an ad in a West German genealogical magazine some years ago... and in 1983 received a reply from a Helmut Teibach who sent some evidence of a family of Lupp in and around Bad Marienberg in eastern Rheinland-pfalz with a certain Gerlach who married a woman from Runkel in Hesse..." Finally, Rev. Ludwig Lupp was born in Marienberg, the son of John Henry Lupp (see Ludwig Lupp's family group sheet in this issue). Now, forgetting Neuwied for a moment, the towns mentioned above as containing Loops are all within a ten mile radius of Bad Marienberg. Neuwied is not far, maybe 30 miles from Bad Marienberg, but, at any rate, the information connecting us with Neuwied is somewhat weak. I am including a map of the region in this issue, the original being courtesy of George Capes. On it I have circled some of the towns mentioned above. Note that "Fiehl" may be Fehl-Ritzhausen just west of Niederrosbach, and "Nister" may not be the Nister I circled, but rather Nister-Mohrendorf (on the map the name is split above and below a road), just north of Emmerichenhain (Emmerichenhain is the practically illegible circled town east of Niederrosbach). The exciting conclusion to this article, then, is that ALL the Loops that we know anything about in the U.S., appear to have their origins in one small area in Germany. We are, indeed, all cousins. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ VITAL DATA +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1. Index to wills and estates for Ohio: Loop: Catherine estate 1841 Wayne County case L-47 Henry estate 1836 Wayne County case L-37 Lewis will 1846 Preble County will book C, p. 145 Simon will 1832 Preble County will book B, p. 228 Simon will 1846 Preble County will book C, p. 148 Loup: Abraham will 1837 Wayne County will book 2, p. 286 Christian will 1826 Delaware Co. will book 1, p. 82 2. From "John Whitman or Weymouth, Mass.", page 496: James D. [Whitman], born Vermont, Nov. 1, 1824, m. Niles, Mich., Nov 1, 1846, Ann D., daughter of Amos and Cynthia (Peck) Loop, b. Ontario, N.Y., Mar. 11, 1830; a furniture manufacturer; he d. of cancer, Niles, Jan. 31, 1864; she m. 2nd. Daniel A. Wicks of Grand Rapids, Mich, and now resides at Lamone, Ia.; 3. Lebanon Co. History, p. 142: St. John's Reformed Church, cemetery near the church edifice on Tenth St. [Interred is:] Ludwig Lupp, b. 28 July 1708, d. 12 Feb 1753. [This record is a mystifying to me. Who is this Ludwig? He died seven months before the Rev. Ludwig Lupp arrived in Philadelphia. My best guess is that he is an Uncle or other close relative and that he had something to do with Rev. Ludwig's coming to the Lebanon area. See Ludwig Lupp's family group sheet in this issue.] 4. Central Methodist Church records, Detroit, Michigan: Marriages: Sept 10, 1857, Gustavus Loop of Detroit to Hannah Stevens of Roseville, in Detroit. 5. Wills of Oakland County, Michigan: Laura Gardner lists daughter Maria Loop, 11 NOV 1848, property in Novi. William Loop, intestate, filed 21 April 1849, died 2 April 1849. Heirs: Mary Loop, widow, seven children, six living with widow, oldest 13, youngest 2. Property in Independence Twp. Adminstrators: Jacob Loop, Jacob Loop Jr., Mary Loop 6. Marriage records, Binghamton, NY: Smith Holcourt of Colesville, Broome County, New York and Marry Loop of same place married 11 DEC 1864, by [?] Levi Pitts. Olive Eliza Pangborn, b. Nov 18, 1832, m. Dec 9, 1856, Charles H. Loop at Norwich, NY. Had two children: Ed, a Kansas City banker, and Cora, went to Whistler [or Wheatly, sorry, my handwritting is not good] Alabama. +++++++++++++++++++++++ NOTES AND ANNOUNCEMENTS +++++++++++++++++++++++ 1. Revelation #1: Vilger, Fillier, and Philyer are all the same name. Perhaps others have realized that, but none of them had told me. It struck me as I was reading a letter from one of you in which Christian Loop's wife Maria's name was spelled Fillier. I am now certain that Peter Loop was the son of Christian Loop and Maria Philyer (or however it is spelled). As far as I can tell, the fact that Peter named a son Philyer, is the only concrete piece of information around that supports the family tradition as to the parents of Peter. 2. Revelation #2: Alburg, Vermont is a very small out of the way place. But there is a lot of Loop activity there: "Vermont" Henry was born there around 1783, Capt. Peter's son Philyer Loop was a judge there, Ira D. Loop was born there. I cannot tie it all together, but I'm sure there are connections here. 3. If you examine the family group sheet for Philyer Loop, you will notice that something strange is going on, a mystery in fact. Almost everyone in the family seems to have died young. And they all died about 20 years after arriving in Alburg, VT. Philyer and his wife Martha died at ages 44 and 36 respectively, in 1822 and 1823. They apparently moved to Alburg between 1800 and 1802. Eight of their ten children died at the ages of 21, 23, 28, 22, 17, 17, 22, and 27. We don't know when the other two children died. The possibilities seem to be: 1) Coincidence (very unlikely) 2) Genetic disorders (possible, but why did the parents live longer than the children?) 3) Natural contamination (for example naturally occurring arsenic in well water) 4) Man-made contamination (for example, lead cooking utensils) I think 3) or 4) are the most likely answers. This is supported by the fact that the wife of one of the sons also died young in Alburg, and it's possible he inherited the house, or the cookware, or whatever. At any rate, it must have been a very sad family. There are some other mysteries surrounding this family. The family group sheet I received from Mary Jo Kubie for the above-mentioned Ira D. Loop is somewhat confused concerning his birth. It seems to say that he was born either in 1807 or 1817 and either in Odell, Canada, or in Elliburgh, Vermont. The uncertainty is apparently due to descrepancies in different source records. There is no Elliburgh, Vermont, or Odell, Canada that I can find. I think it is likely that he was born in Alburg, VT. He apparently enlisted twice in the military, having deserted the first time. He therefore may have made up a different birthplace for his second enlistment papers. He had lived in Canada, and Philyer Loop's wife was Martha Odell. Is that how he came up with Odell, Canada? This would make him an ideal candidate for being a son of Philyer and Martha. But he isn't mentioned in the estate papers as an heir (I have not found Philyer's will yet). Philyer is listed in the 1810 and 1820 censuses as follows: 1810, Alburg, Grand Isle County, VT Phillier Loup males to 10 - 2 females to 10 - 3 10 to 16 - 0 10 to 16 - 0 16 to 26 - 2 16 to 26 - 1 26 to 45 - 1 26 to 45 - 1 45 and up - 0 45 and up - 0 1820, Alburg, Grand Isle County, VT Philyer Loup males to 10 - 2 females to 10 - 2 10 to 16 - 2 10 to 16 - 2 16 to 26 - 1 16 to 26 - 2 26 to 45 - 2 26 to 45 - 1 45 and up - 0 45 and up - 0 16 to 18 - 0 Note that these records do not compare well to the family group sheet. In 1810 there are two boys and a girl over 16. But Philyer would have been only 33, meaning he would have had 3 children by the age of 17. And they couldn't have been Martha's children because she would have been only 24 in 1810 and only married in 1801. I think it's fairly certain that Philyer had children (or adults) living with him who weren't his children. Who were they? They seem to be too old to be Ira D. Loop. It's also possible they were just hired help living in the house. 4. Wild speculation: I came across the following baptismal record in the IGI. Bayly, Mary daughter of William Bayly and Deborah Springer 2 NOV 1755 N.Y., N.Y., Trinity Church Could this be Maria Bailey who married Capt. Peter Loop as his second wife? His first wife was Cousia Springer. Could Deborah Springer be his first wife's sister? A long shot, but intriguing nonetheless. 5. Grace Loop Waltenberry asks some questions in a letter to me which I will paraphrase: o Did Capt. Peter Loop really live to be 101? ANS: He apparently claimed to have been born in 1723 which would have made him 101 when he died in 1824. o Are you sure about your dates for Truman Loop? Dr. Truman Ellis Loope was born in 1870, not 1857, and died 6 DEC 1941. I knew him and his sister Eva Loope Stanton... His father's dates were 1841 - 1911. ANS: There were at least two Truman Loop's. One was the son of Norry Loop, a descendent of Richard Henry Loop. The Truman you mention is the grandson of John Loop and his wife Anne Ward. His father's name was also Truman Ellis Loop. o Are you a Loop descendent? Ans: Yes, my great-grandmother was Bertha Edith Loop, wife of Oscar Ellwood Smith, and daughter of Henry Loop (see query #1 above). 6. Several people corrected me concerning Vermillion County, Indiana. Yes, it does exist. Sorry about my sloppy detective work. The family group sheet for Daniel Tucker Loop should be corrected accordingly. 7. Several people have sent information showing Capt. Peter's son Peter, Jr., as being Peter C. Loop, Jr. Ross Roby says there is no evidence that he knows of for that middle initial "C". Does anyone have any such convincing evidence? 8. Ross Roby: You say there was a Peter C. Loop in Steuben County in 1814, the son of Christian Loop and Lucy Ferris. Could you give me a reference for that? Also, could you tell me the name of the German genealogical magazine in which you advertized and tell me whether you submitted the ad in German or English? 9. Hazel Dinsdale: You mentioned that you corresponded with Omer Loop's daughter. Would you please send me her name and address. Thanks. 10. I still do not have a copy of the article (chapter) on Christian Loop. Would someone please send me a copy? Thanks. 11. Bess Olson: As far as I know, Richard "Vermont" Henry Loop did not have a son named Andrew. (I may have already written to you on this.) 12. On the family group sheets for George Loop (1789-1865) and David Loop (1812-1872) George Loop's wives' names should be (1) HARPER, ______ and (2) ______, Nancy. Please make the correction. 13. Does anybody know where Jessup's Patent was in New York? Ens. Henry received timberland there about 1785.